Monday, June 3, 2024

First Impressions: China vs. India — India Must Catch Up!

I know comparisons are odious but I’m making them anyway! My visit to China (May 11-June 5, 2024 — only the second in two decades — brought up a lot of latent issues. China’s progress is extraordinary; it has surpassed all the usual growth indices, crushed IMF forecasts, and hugely raised living standards. There really is no comparison to any other country. 


Going back to the late 90s, the Indian economy was just opening up after 50 years of stagnation and several international economists were saying that India had the edge over China. Both were at the same level but experts were more gung-ho about India for various reasons, chiefly, the rules of law and governance, democracy, and familiarity with the English language. The one economist who didn’t agree was Nobel Laureate, Amartya Sen. 


I heard Sen give a talk at SAIS, the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies in Washington, D.C. He cautioned against the hype. The lack of literacy would pull India down, he warned: in China, factory workers could read simple diagrams and numbers and put machinery parts together; in India, the level of illiteracy prevented even those basic tasks. Sen was prescient. China has far outrun not just India but many western countries to become the manufacturing giant and economic powerhouse it is today. Its literacy rate has increased from 66 percent in 1982 to 97.2 percent in 2020 (globaldata.com). India is 77.7 percent.


Infrastructure


Nobody builds infrastructure as rapidly as China or has the money to fund it, both domestically and overseas (witness the Belt and Road Initiative). Having visited India several times over the past decade, I have seen swanky airports and new roads (I hear there’s also a bullet train) but nowhere near enough and not a patch on China’s advanced infrastructure, which surpasses much in the West. China’s trains (I travelled thrice by bullet train and domestic airlines), are a far cry from anything I’ve seen in the U.S. (I’m a veteran of Amtrak travel) and certainly far superior to the more than two day Delhi to Trivandrum train journey I did a few years ago. 


Ever since the 1909 opening of the Zhongshan Bridge (see pic), the first permanent bridge over the Yellow River in Lanzhou — which cost an exorbitant 165,000 silver coins paid to a German construction firm — Chinese engineers and construction companies have themselves designed and built more than a million bridges and laid many more miles of roads and highways, another quite remarkable feat.  


China’s average infrastructure spending was nearly 10 times higher than that of the U.S. and is 4.8 percent of its GDP (Statista.com). India continues to lag behind China in infrastructure investment. 


Air Pollution


In my view, perhaps China’s biggest plus is getting a handle on air pollution. One can actually breathe without coughing and gagging. Whenever I return from India, it is with a hacking cough. Many Delhi friends are suffering from lung problems relating to pollution. One of them used an oxygen machine for five years before he died. Very young children are getting serious bronchial issues. 


Fifteen  years ago, Beijing’s air pollution was far more severe than Delhi. Now the country with the top ten worst polluted cities in the world is India. The failure of Indian authorities to take concrete steps to improve air quality is unforgivable in light of the disastrous consequences to its citizens’ health, wellbeing, and productivity. 


Security 


The lack of safety and security (especially for women) is one of India’s most intractable challenges. Rapes and assaults are an everyday occurrence. Not so in China. I did some travel by myself. I used public transport in Shanghai.  I felt safe.  In India, it is the opposite. 


I recall an incident when another woman and I were taking the night train to Hardwar-Rishikesh.  At Nizamuddin station, our first class carriage was surrounded by men trying to grab us. We were warned by the conductor to shut the windows and keep the carriage doors locked. It was scary. There were similar incidents over the years. In India, women need a sixth sense to survive. I’m not exaggerating. 


Monuments 


China must be commended for its upkeep of heritage monuments and museums. India can and must do a better job of promoting and preserving its ancient artifacts and buildings. I recall that historic temples in southern India under the control of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) were usually in great shape and properly sign posted. Not so the temples looked after by religious committees which were mainly interested in gouging money from visitors besides pouring milk and ghee over porous stone statues, thereby damaging them! I’ve heard that the ASI Museum in Delhi is dilapidated and hope that authorities will do a better job of maintenance. 


A few years ago, at a high school reunion, I remember being grossed out by the condition of the Kanya Kumari beaches (and the Vivekananda Rock Memorial) at the southern tip of India where the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea meet the Indian Ocean. It used to be a splendid place to visit; now it’s like a public latrine — again, not exaggerating — no point building more toilets if people won’t use them! 


I recall a late night bus journey from Khajuraho to Jhansi when the bus suddenly braked in the middle of the road. The driver nearly ran over a group of women, their faces covered, using the highway as a toilet because it was safer than going in the fields! Granted this took place over two decades ago, but it could happen today. 


I was struck that the Shanghai History Museum mentioned the Harappan Civilization (Indus Valley, Mohenjdaro and Harappa). It said that the Liangzhu Culture in China was “synchronous,” that is, around the same period as that of ancient Egypt, ancient Babylon, and the Harappan civilization in ancient India. (See pic). There is in fact evidence that the four traded with each other. 


Since both China and India have over 5,000 plus years of history and civilization, they may want to pool their knowledge, research, and resources to maintain and preserve their archaeological treasures. 


Doing Business


If there’s one thing that drives China it is commerce. You see it everywhere, not just in the small mom and pop stores but the existence of bustling shops of every size and variety as well as large department stores and those selling international brands. One of my guides in Shanghai told me how easy it is to open a business in China both for citizens and foreigners. 


This was confirmed by the World Bank's (sadly, now defunct) Doing Business Annual Report that measured how easy it was for companies to open businesses in WB member countries. Many years ago, China and India were lagging behind other nations but China made huge strides to ease regulations regarding labor and land acquisition, tariffs, and other metrics; as a result, it’s standing shot upwards. India did not quite catch up. According to a recent Reuters story, there may be hope. India’s ruling party is planning  “a raft of business-friendly measures” to rival China and transform India into a global manufacturing hub. 


Speaking English


One area where India still has a definite edge is English. I was surprised that few people — even in China’s five star international hotels — actually speak English. In Xi’an and Lanzhou, it was impossible to communicate by phone. You had to go to the hotel lobby armed with the translation app on the iPhone to make yourself understood. This led to a couple of hilarious incidents. 


At the hotel spa in Xi’an, I had to first get the front desk to intervene. Later, I kept waiting for the treatment to begin — the tea ceremony and foot soaking took forever. I asked on the app if I should shower first and the attendant responded, “wash it and he will come!”  She meant the female masseuse, not some strange man!  


At a restaurant in Turpan, Xinjiang (where we’d eaten the previous night), we ordered beer and the waiter kept nodding as if he understood. We reminded him a couple more times but still no beer — we had to resort to the translation app for the beer to finally arrive! 


Vegetarian and Gluten Free


In my (rather narrow) view, another area where China is behind is in the availability of vegetarian and gluten free cuisine. It was tough for me to get anything beyond vegetable fried rice, bok choy, and eggplant whereas India has such an endless variety of vegetarian and gluten-free food made from basin (chickpea flour). Sadly, my skin sensitivity prevents me from eating more exotic fare (lotus root, wood ear mushroom, bamboo shoots, even tofu).  I was told that in China meat is often added as flavoring. Some fellow travelers suggested I push aside the meat and just eat the veg: not an option for me! 


End of Poverty?


Two years ago, the World Bank touted China’s accomplishment of lifting 800 million people out of poverty. By any standard this is an amazing achievement that India has yet to wrap its arms around. We travelled two weeks in Western China. There were no beggars or homeless people, except for one person outside the mosque in Xi’an. There was no poop on the streets, or paan (betel leaf) spit up, and roads often looked freshly washed and cleaned! (There’s actually more spitting by the — mostly Taiwanese — Chinese population in Flushing, Queens, NY, but that’s an anecdote for another day)! 


The less said about evident poverty in India the better. It is heartrending to see women and kids still crowding around traffic lights or grabbing you as you walk. Poverty is ubiquitous; it’s in your face; you can’t ignore it or pretend it ain’t there!  


Democracy vs. Communism 


Democracy in India (as imperfect as it is) is another factor that has not quite worked in its favor. There is no doubt that China would not have made the progress it has if not for Communism and the ability to get things done without waiting for endless debates and parliamentary committees. 


We are witness to western liberal values being imperiled in America’s upcoming 2024 election with the possible advent of a new kind of authoritarianism that is increasing not just in the U.S. but elsewhere in the world. 


In my view, desis (my erstwhile, though no less beloved, fellow countrymen) are getting the short end of the stick — all the disadvantages and none of the advantages of a faux democracy. Freedom of expression is curtailed and minorities are persecuted but without the benefit of clean air, good jobs, decent health care, electricity without load shedding, reliable drinking water, safety for women, you name it! 


Ludi Joseph

Shanghai 

June 3, 2024




Historic Zhongshan Bridge, Lanzhou


Bridge outside Tianshui

Bullet Train, Turpan

Bullet Train, Lanzhou

Wind Turbines, Xinjiang

Shanghai Harbor

Shanghai History Museum, Mention of Harappa

Shanghai History Museum. Ancient Civilizations Map: China, Babylon, Egypt, India 






20 comments:

  1. Hi Ludi, Thanks for sharing your excellent travel article. I hope some well known Indian politicians read this report. It is interesting to note that the differences between India and China are quiet remarkable. I agree with you beacause i had the view as you do , since I visited China many years ago . I was also totally amazed by the devlopment of infrastructure and huge housing projects in China . One of the observation about the Chinese is that they are a highly disciplined community and they are very proud of their culture and identity . Indians lack discipline and the average people are too much wrapped up in religion and with lack of focus . India is one of the most corrupted countries in the world . There is tremendous lack of cross culture communication between Indian people due to cultural , religious and language differences . The average Indian doesnt know anything about another Indian from a different state .

    Another important thing to consider about China is that the they are more of a homogeneous society which India is not. I feel that China will be the world leader someday but India won’t be.

    Fred Semendy

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  2. Dear Fred,

    How astute your comments are! Quite right! Sadly, we Indians lack discipline and focus! I did
    not mention the high rise apartment blocks or the pride that Chinese nationals feel in their identity. But it is quite true. They love their country and feel justifiably proud of its achievements - as they rightly should.

    Everywhere we went there were these pretty young girls in national dress happy for their picture to be taken - and not asking for money in return as they do in Times Square! I think I’ve lived too long in America because I couldn’t quite fathom why they were letting us photograph them!

    Thank you for your insightful remarks!
    Ludi.

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  3. Outstanding treatment of the subject! Thanks Ludi

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  4. Your blog was very good.

    Definitely, China is way ahead of Hindustan. When my friends visited many years ago, it was difficult to breathe as there was so much construction — since then, China has turned a corner.

    You will not see obvious poverty — because they will not take you to a place like the Dharavi Slum in Bombay.

    When I took a group of tourists from Trinidad and Tobago to the Sri Baba Shridhi Temple in Pune by bus, you could see people defecating along the road! They won’t show you that in China.

    Yes, they really look after their historical monuments compared to us Indians.

    Lorna.

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    1. Thanks Lorna. Great comments! Agree with all you said.

      Yes the homeless and the beggars are nowhere to be found, unlike in America or India.

      Maybe we should take a page from China’s book or does one really want to preserve the right to sleep, pee and poop on the street? Freedom has its limitations!

      Thanks again.
      Ludi.



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  5. M.V. Kannan, BangaloreJune 4, 2024 at 6:38 AM

    Your First Impressions on your China Visit are simply brilliant and remarkable. I find myself at a loss for words to say anything more! Where and how did you find the energy and the time to record it all, with your suitcase at the ready travelling around by varied means of transportation in and around China, visiting ever so many sites of unmissable tourist attractions? I think you carry a self-recording computer in your brain or you keep an endless stock of blotting papers within your mind to absorb the wet and dry things you are exposed to!

    To appreciate why we in India are where we are, yes, Amartya Sen (reminder, he taught me at the Delhi School of Economics) got it right about the educational standards of the Chinese as compared to their Indian counterparts. Like these social science people keep saying, you could add healthcare and social infrastructure too. You have covered some aspects of these criteria to spread over here and there.

    There is the aspect of leadership too. I don't think the Chinese achievements would have been possible without the guidance and sense of direction provided by Deng Xiaoping (1907-1994). It was he who identified agriculture, industry, science and technology, and national defence as the four areas of modernization China had to undertake. I would imagine he made it possible for those who came after him to succeed.

    Would it be possible for you to write in more detail about some of the areas you have covered, say, cleanliness, work ethics, care and maintenance of historical assets, and so on? I know, you would require supporting data. To your credit, you have managed to push in a fair bit of facts and figures in your present text too.

    Here's wishing you continuing power to your pen!

    Best regards,
    M V Kannan
    kkay@rediffmail.com

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    Replies
    1. Thank you Kannan for those very detailed and kind comments!

      I don’t keep notes. I rely on memory! Hence the edit button. I keep thinking of new points and adding them. My blogs are purely anecdotal. I don’t aspire to provide research. My readers are non-journo lay people who don’t hesitate to call me out when I omit important points!

      You’re quite right. Leadership is a key issue in China and one of the main reasons for its success. One of the guides pointed out to me that sans leadership and (most importantly) continuity, China would be nowhere. Chairman Deng’s contributions laid the cornerstone of what we are seeing today.

      Sadly we in India are still reeling from the lack of powerful leadership especially after the end of the Gandhi-Nehru generation.

      Will try my best to cover the topics you suggest. Thanhs again.

      Ludi.

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  6. Dear Joe,

    Thank you for that - I will certainly do my bit.

    So chuffed at the Indian election results! The Economist called it “the humbling of Mr. M!”

    Cheers!
    Ludi.

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  7. Camilla Jamro. New YorkJune 5, 2024 at 12:47 AM

    Ludi

    What an interesting account, especially on the infrastructure of China and how the U.S. is lagging.. I took a high speed train between Nanjing and Shanghai in 2017.

    Camilla.

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    Replies
    1. Thanks Camilla.

      When I spoke to people I met on the street, I found them extremely proud of their infrastructure, as well they should be! Enjoy your time in HK!

      Delete
  8. Very interesting Ludi.
    I was in Beijing in 2015 and remember the awful air pollution at that time. Good to know that it’s not an issue anymore. I also took the bullet train from Beijing to Xiamen and found it remarkable. I’ve heard of their amazing progress in infrastructure since then. As you’ve observed much of their progress can be attributed to their authoritarian system.
    Your observations on vegetarian food are spot on! I travelled to Heilongjiang and was basically surviving on peanuts and potatoes for three days much to my chagrin! Public toilets were horrible or non-existent.
    On another note doing business with them is fraught with risk ( from personal experience in international trade). Contracts can be reneged on if the market becomes unfavorable in the trading environment. In that respect this behavior is similar to that prevailing in countries like India,Pakistan,Bangladesh & Turkey. Vetting the customer is key before
    contracting. Therefore brokers are an invaluable resource when trading with China.
    In summary China’s made remarkable progress and it’s actions in the international community show a long term vision to dominate.

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    1. Thanks Shyam for your comments. Interesting that our reactions were similar vis a vis infrastructure and food! You are quite right about the public toilets. Room for improvement! I didn’t know about reneging on contracts. Too bad!

      Everything that China does is long term, in my view. They don’t look for results tomorrow but in 10, 20 or 50 years — and they can afford to do so with continuity of leadership. Guess that’s the difference between a command economy and a democracy.

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  9. Chinyere Bun, Fairfax, VAJune 7, 2024 at 7:41 PM

    Dear Ludi,

    I loved your blog comparing India and China. Thank you for sharing it.

    It blog reminded me of a letter/e-mail my father wrote to me in 1999. He had travelled to China for work and was so impressed. He said there was building, excitement, and optimism in the air. Specifically, he said "this is a country in a hurry." He has not been back since then but I will forward your blog to him and see what he thinks.

    He also travelled to India for work in the mid 90s and mentioned the overt poverty.

    Will you be coming to DC this summer or will you stay in New York?

    Love,
    Chinyere

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    Replies
    1. Dear Chinyere,

      Thank you for your comments. Glad you liked the blog. Please let me know what your father thinks of it. I will ring you when I am in DC.

      Love to all at home.
      Ludi.

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  10. Susan Baumel, Falls Church. VAJune 7, 2024 at 7:54 PM

    Hi Ludi,

    It sounds like you had a very interesting and exciting trip. The comparison between the two giants makes a lot of sense. I think the Global Data stats give it a lot of depth, too. Good piece!

    Not sure if it was relaxing or exhausting, but memorable, no doubt.

    Hope to see you soon! You must need a lot of rest - and food, it sounds like, too!

    Ciao,
    Susan

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    Replies
    1. Dear Susan,

      Thank you for those kind comments. Yes, it was a very memorable trip. I will call you when I get back from NY.

      All tte best.
      Ludi.

      Delete
  11. Frsnk Mendes, New YorkJune 8, 2024 at 4:32 PM

    Ludi,

    Congratulations on enlightening us about the change in the World Order! I devoured your blog on the progress China has made vis-a-vis India. I circulated it to a group of my classmates who had posted a propaganda video glorifying India’s advances! Keep up informed with your keen observations.

    Best
    Frank.

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    Replies
    1. Thanks Frank for your comments. I am betting that your desi classmates were unhappy with the blog - but never mind! Glad you enjoyed reading it.

      Cheers
      Ludi.

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  12. Angela Bennet, Sydney, AustraliaJune 9, 2024 at 8:08 AM

    Hi Ludi,

    Thank you for a very enlightening blog with your keen observations. Mostly you hear about China's economic progress in the press, so it was very interesting to read about the clean air, security, and the people being very proud of their country. The bullet train station looked much cleaner than some of the grimy stations in Sydney. And Australia still hasn't built any
    bullet trains for the long distances here. And the climate wars are still going on.

    The other day I read an article about migrants to Australia who are returning to their home countries because of the cost of living here and the price of real estate. One family is returning to China because they decided they would be better off there. Also read that a Bulgarian couple are returning home for the same reasons, so that doesn't reflect well on Australia!

    Really enjoy your blogs!
    Angela

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    Replies
    1. Dear Angela,

      Thanks very much for those great comments.

      Sad to hear that migrants are returning to their home countries, including Chinese. It’s happening in the U.S. as well. Wonder where it will all end…

      Best
      Ludi

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